‘sin or born to sin?’

 

The story about a homosexual suing Thomas Nelson Publishers and Zondervan hit the news wire  on July 9, 2008: [WorldNetDaily]. Another story has been posted today by  OneNewsNow

‘Bible’ lawsuit may be sign of things to come’.

For years we have been hearing from the homosexual community that the bible does not condemn homosexuality. They have continually tried to convince society, and more importantly themselves that homosexuality is not an “abomination to God”. Or I wonder if they are just seeking a covering for their sin?

Consider the comments from the Most Reverend Alan Harper….

A senior British Archbishop has called for the Anglican Church to revise its teachings on homosexuality.

The Archbishop of Armagh, the Most Rev Alan Harper, who is one of 38 primates in the worldwide Anglican Communion, said today that if “reason” were applied to the Bible texts that seem to condemn homosexuality, a different interpretation would be found.

“Let us be clear on this. It has not yet been conclusively shown that for some males and some females homosexuality and homosexual acts are natural rather than unnatural.

“If such comes to be shown, it will be necessary to acknowledge the full implications of that new aspect of the truth, and that insight applied to establish and acknowledge what may be a new status for homosexual relationships within the life of the Church.”

He gave as an example the Genesis account of creation, where the Bible says God made the world in seven days and that the first woman, Eve, was made from Adam’s rib. Some Christians believe this account is literally true, but Anglicans have traditonally taken an allegorical approach to this and similar texts.

…. or ‘A theological defense of homosexuality’ by Don Weck

But the prevailing cultural understanding of homosexuality has dramatically changed — enough for me to think that these passages cannot easily be carried over to our modern society. At any rate, more is needed.

To me these Scriptures don’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that homosexuality today is inherently wrong or that they encompass our current understandings of what homosexuality is.

…….. Or maybe it is the ‘ploy of using analogy’, as Anti-gay Evangelical Author, Dr. Robert Gagnon points out on his website:

Applying Analogical Reasoning to Bible questions allows us to draw principled conclusions based on the general trajectory of God’s truth revealed in scripture, he says.

“The proper purpose of engaging in analogical reasoning is to assess what categories best fit the issue in question through comparison-cases that share the greatest number of correspondences.”

__________________________________________________

In the homosexual attempt to justify the sin, they have alleged homosexual couples in the Bible, primarily Ruth and Naomi, Daniel and Ashpenaz, and David and Jonathan. More recently, there has been a proposal that there was a homosexual relationship between the Centurion and his servant who requested to be healed by Jesus….

And of course the all to familiar ‘HOMOSEXUALITY: SIN OR MERE STATE OF BIRTH’. In other words homosexuality can not be a sin “because we are born this way”. If our actions are wrong, it is God’s fault!

Then we see Mr. Bradley LaShawn Fowler come on the scene, and the tide appears to be taking new direction. His defense is not that the scriptures promote the sin of homosexuality, his actions justify the fact that the bible says that it is sin, and that is where his problem lies. So all that the unrepentant sinner can do is attack the Bible.

Bradley LaShawn Fowler of Canton, Michigan, does not like the fact that the Bibles produced by Zondervan and Thomas Nelson Publishers both accurately convey God’s prohibition against homosexual behavior. So he is suing in federal court, seeking $10 million from Thomas Nelson and $60 million from Zondervan

If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. John 15:18-23

They not only hate the Son and the Father… they hate His Word and will violently attack it. Do not be surprised my friend. The day will come and shall not delay that they will hate both you and I and will violently attack. Be of good courage and stand upon that faithful word.

malachi

Advertisements

6 Comments

  1. if you believe so strongly that homosexuality is a sin, then please show me how the words of scripture say homosexuality is a sin…………………from lev…………..where some prohibitions of themselves are not sins to gen………….gang rape to romans…………….shamebased lust to icor and 1tim…………………”malebed” to gen ………………where a man woman oneflesh relationship is one form one form of bonding that god ordains to matt 19…….where god gives dispensation to others not of heterosexual orientation………………..consideruing wikipedia………….eunuch….is a castrated man, in particular one castrated early enough to have major hormonal consequences; the term usually refers to those castrated in order to perform a specific social function, as was common in many societies of the past. The earliest records for intentional castration to produce eunuchs are from the Sumerian city of Lagash in the twenty first century BC.[citation needed] Over the millennia since, they have performed a wide variety of functions in many different cultures such as courtiers or equivalent domestics, treble singers, religious specialists, government officials, military commanders, and guardians of women or harem servants. In some translations of ancient texts, individuals identified as eunuchs seem to include men who were impotent with women, those we would now call transgender or homosexual, and those who were simply celibate.

  2. Thanks John for stopping by ‘A Word From Malachi’ and both reading and commenting. There is a lot more to read than just the ‘sin or born to sin’, hope you will spend some more time checking out some of the other post, especially the information ‘about’ the site.

    When dealing with the truth of the scripture, the depth goes much deeper than the words on the pages of the scripture. Even close scrutiny of the Hebrew or Greek cannot reveal the spiritual truth of God’s word for if it had “they would not have crucified the Lord of glory”. But we learn from this, that eye hath not seen nor ear heard… it is the spirit that reveals. God’s word is spirit and is life.

    I could spend the rest of the day expounding spiritual truths concerning this error, but will only take the liberty of this one…

    From God’s word we understand that God created man and woman for the purpose of fellowship. He desired an intimate and personal fellowship with His creation that would allow Him to walk in the cool of the garden. But sin was found in man and woman. There sin separated them from the Creator.

    This failure of humanity did not take God by surprise and before the foundation of the world He set forth a plan. That He would become a man that He might die for the sin of all of humanity. If and when an individual acknowledges this- that all have sinned and come short of God’s glory, but while we were yet sinners, Christ (God in the flesh) in the fullness of time, born of a woman, that He might take upon Him the sin that began in Eden and will continue until His return, died for our sin. The creator dyeing for sinful creation… Amazing grace, eh?

    Now we see this restoration of fallen man is pictured in a very special analogy and that of a man and a woman united in marriage…

    Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Ephesians 5:22-33

    We know from the scriptures that homosexuality has been around for thousand of years, but this is not justification for the act. But what I would like to expound that when the Spirit of God impressed upon the Apostle Paul to draw out this spiritual analogy, he did not liken it to a loving, consensual, adult relationship between the same sex, but to the likeness of a man and a woman… for this is the design of God and we see it all the way back to the beginning of time.

    John, neither I nor the bible can convince one of this truth, but there is a Spirit and He is Truth and He can.

    Peace my friend
    malachi

  3. but we know that jesus said …i have more to tell you that you cannot now bear……………but i will send the holy spirit who will convince you of all truth.

    and also in regard to what is of me and not of me “you will recognize them by their fruit(fruit of the spirit)

    homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals. they bond out of mutual love,trust ,respect, devotion,and attraction for a shared committed life together. both in their relationship have equal capacity to embrace the fruit of the spirit.
    and cannot they cherish each other. as to who is the head cannot this be manifested by thru spirit who has unlimited in power.

    why would you give power to physicality when you know that we are holy not by anything that we do, but by the christ living in us.(if he does not live in us we have no part in him)

    in regards to the sin issue if you believe that homosexuality is a sin then simply answer…. …knowing that the summation of all the law is expressed in the commandment love your neighbor as yourself( the fulfillment of the law being love)………… how does homosexuality come against this commandment. paul says that what is of the sin nature is obviouis. by its very nature it shows how it comes against the fruit of the spirit and the spirit of christ. what is the obvious essence of homosexuality thatit would be of the sin nature.

    how does something not being expressed in scripture make it of god or not of god.

    ethnic slavery is an intolerable evil. it was promoted in the old testament and condoned in the new. because of this it was so widely accepted, that it was promoted by the church for 1800 years and required a war in the us that killed 2 million to settle it.

    the ultimate test was eventually understood that ethnic slavery was an intolerable evil because it came against loving ones neighbor as oneself.

    ps about that spirit about marriage………………..no believer that i have known either in ministry or in the attendance of my churches has ever been explain that scripture in regards to their own marriage particularly about how who is the head is lived out.

    did not christ say the true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth.

    is it your understanding that gender (physicality) limts what is of spirit.

    cannot homosexuals submit to each other(the greatest among you is your servant) and cannot theylove each others bodies as if they were their own.

  4. Hello John, thanks for stopping back in. I am sorry that it has taken me so long to respond, but this has been a busy weekend.

    “but we know that jesus said …i have more to tell you that you cannot now bear……………but i will send the holy spirit who will convince you of all truth.”

    Absolutely John, the word of God is not perceived by human intellect. A man can go to school and can learn to reading, writing and arithmetic, but the things of God can only be understood by the illumination of His Spirit. There is a process to laying hold to this power, when a man is born again; God bestows His Spirit upon that individual that we might understand the things in His word.

    “and also in regard to what is of me and not of me “you will recognize them by their fruit(fruit of the spirit)”

    John if the reference above is from the words of Christ in Matthew 7, the reference is concerning the ‘fruit – error’ of the false teachers. And rest assured there is a ton of error concerning the word of God, but again we see the importance of role of the Spirit of God in yielding this discernment. If we do not have the Spirit of Truth, we will stumble in error. What we find is that the Spirit of Truth will always use the Word of Truth to reveal the error of the above-mentioned false teachers. That is why the Word of God in conjunction with the Spirit of God is what an individual must have.

    “homosexuals bond in the same spirit as heterosexuals. they bond out of mutual love,trust ,respect, devotion,and attraction for a shared committed life together. both in their relationship have equal capacity to embrace the fruit of the spirit.
    and cannot they cherish each other. as to who is the head cannot this be manifested by thru spirit who has unlimited in power.”

    John, there is a distinction I think that we may be overlooking. In the first epistle to the church in Corinth (a city that was given over to unrestrained life styles) the Spirit of God through the writing of the Apostle Paul gives admonition concerning moral laxity.

    “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh. But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s.” 1 Corinthians 6:9-20- NKJV

    The distinction is that sexual sin in the body seems to be viewed in a serious sin as it is the temple of the Holy Spirit. But John, a man that is born again needs not that any man teach him, for he has an anointing and that of this Holy Spirit that we have been talking of. He is fully capable of directing in the things of God, far better than even you or I.

    “why would you give power to physicality when you know that we are holy not by anything that we do, but by the christ living in us.(if he does not live in us we have no part in him)”

    John if we do decide homosexuality, adultery, pedophilia, beastiality, or any other sexual immorality is ‘sin’ then the bible says that we cannot continue living in that sin, even if we have been born again. Paul answered the question “should we continue in sin that grace may abound?”… God forbid.

    “in regards to the sin issue if you believe that homosexuality is a sin then simply answer…. …knowing that the summation of all the law is expressed in the commandment love your neighbor as yourself( the fulfillment of the law being love)………… how does homosexuality come against this commandment. paul says that what is of the sin nature is obviouis. by its very nature it shows how it comes against the fruit of the spirit and the spirit of christ. what is the obvious essence of homosexuality thatit would be of the sin nature.”

    An individual can love in spirit and not feel the desire to take the love to a sexual (physical) level. A man can love his children and or his parents yet without a sexual desire. The love in fulfilling the Law… that a man would love God, with all his heart, his soul and his mind and his neighbor as himself does not have a sexual connotation.

    “ps about that spirit about marriage………………..no believer that i have known either in ministry or in the attendance of my churches has ever been explain that scripture in regards to their own marriage particularly about how who is the head is lived out.

    did not christ say the true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth.

    is it your understanding that gender (physicality) limts what is of spirit.
    cannot homosexuals submit to each other(the greatest among you is your servant) and cannot theylove each others bodies as if they were their own.”

    John, God’s word is true and His Spirit is sufficient, maybe we should leave this up to His work.

    Peace my friend
    malachi

  5. let me help you. murder and theft come against loving ones neighbor as oneself. the reasons are obvious……………takinbg anothers life for personal gain and taking property from another without permission, also for personnal gain. both obviously are of the sin nature.

    again…………………………. how does homosexuality come against the commandment. bonding is coming together out of mutual respect, trust, devotion, and love both agape and eros for shared committed life together. bcause the bonding is also about mutual attraction, it also warrants sexual intimacy.

    is a father attracted to a his children. are friends attracted to each other. etc

    does the sexual intimacy in any way dimimish respect and lessen trust and undermine love?

    in my church homosexual couples marry.

    why is it you give no inclusion to christ in your understanding. the one to whom has been entrusted with all judgement, and who has been placed in authority over all things.

    consider that in the new covenant anything the father does he does thru the spirit of the son.

    christ gave a spirit message for all time. is your understanding that fruit has only one single meaning and no other.

    i know of no teaching that has only a single meaning. all have multiple meanings and interconnect with other teachings and are without contradiction.. its about spirit not legality. legality would attempt legitmize only a single understamding.

    is it your contention that heterosexuals bond solely in eros,sans agape. i thought that the indication that marriage was a possibility was that although eros was present , the relationship was founded on agape love.

    i never heard anyone say we want to have sex so we want to get married so we can have sex without violating scripture.

    nor have i heard “we are gathered together because of this couples sexual differences and so they can have sex without violating scripture.”\

    sex is a natural thing for 2 humans who are attracted and devoted to each other.

    you can have what ever beliefs you choose about it. but i see no support in scripture.

    if you are standingg on the old covennant. we know that not all the prohibitions of themselves were sins. and things that were promoted and condoned are intolerable evils today.

    because one thing is sanctioned by god does not mean it is the only thing sanctioned by god (written or unwritten)unless only is sressed. is only stressed?

  6. “in my church homosexual couples marry.”

    The church John is not the cannon for what is right and what is wrong. We see things happening in the church, and a lot of it at the hands of the priest. It ought not to be.

    “sex is a natural thing for 2 humans who are attracted and devoted to each other.”

    The scripture only considers it natural when it is between a man and a woman. Sex between the same sex is ‘unatural’ if the scriptures are considered the cannon.

    “you can have what ever beliefs you choose about it. but i see no support in scripture.”

    To him that believes it is sin, it is sin. The only reservation, “what forms our beliefs”?

    malachi


Comments RSS TrackBack Identifier URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s