‘the tickling of itching ears’

 

Most of the WordPress readers are aware that Pastor Rick Warren was chosen by President-elect Barack Obama to offer the invocation at his inauguration. This request led to a public outcry by gay-rights activist and those propagating homosexual marriage.

Both Barack Obama and Rick Warren have vehemently defended their positions with Obama sticking by his convictions in selecting Warren and Warren standing by his convictions in terms of homosexual marriage.

OneNewNow published a new article where it appears that Rick Warren is giving some evidence of craw-fishing if you please…. in the biblical vernacular, the heaping of teachers having itching ears.

You can read the OneNewsNow article in its entirety at this link, but for discussion purposes, I have extracted some particular excerpts which will be printed in bold italics.

Rick Warren: Opposed to gay marriage, not gay partnerships- OneNewsNow

Pastor Rick Warren, chosen by President-elect Barack Obama to pray at his inauguration, said in a video message to his church that he doesn’t equate homosexual relationships with incest or pedophilia, but opposes redefining marriage just as any conservative Christian would.

If the article from OneNewsNow is accurate, it says that Rick Warren communicated through a video message to his church, that he does not equate homosexual relationship with incest or pedophilia, but that he does oppose redefining marriage, just as any conservative Christian would.

I am confused by this speech. If he is speaking for the ‘conservative Christian’, he would probably find that a conservative Christian considers homosexuality as sin and that marriage should remain as it is defined…

 

“the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law”

With regard to the confusing speech, Warren attempts to draw a distinction between homosexuality, incest and pedophilia? It would be like Warren saying….

I do not equate the brutal murder of a Christian in Indonesia or North Korea with that of murdered through the act of abortion, just as any Christian conservative would?

 

Now I have not been able to find ‘the video message’ to his church. I have searched the Saddleback web site but it is not available. One thing that I did find was a public statement about homosexuality.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY?

Q&A on Saddlebackfamily.com’s Web site- Tom Holladay

Question: What does the Bible say about homosexuality?
Answer: The Bible very clearly says that homosexuality is a sin. 

“Homosexuality is absolutely forbidden, for it is an enormous sin.” Lev. 18:22 (TLB)

Sexual Intimacy Outside of Marriage

God tells us through His Word that sex outside of marriage and sexual immorality are one in the same:  they are both sin.

“For God wants you to be holy and pure and to keep clear of all sexual sin.” 1 Thessalonians 4:3 TLB

“Honor your marriage and its vows, and be pure; for God will surely punish all those who are immoral or commit adultery.” Hebrews 13:4 TLB

“Let there be no sex sin, impurity or greed among you.  Let no one be able to accuse you of any such things.” Ephesians 5:3 TLB

 

In his video, he insisted he wasn’t equating gay marriage with incest or child molestation.

“I have in no way ever taught that homosexuality is the same thing as a forced relationship between an adult and a child, or between siblings,” Warren said. “I was trying to point out I’m not opposed to gays having their partnership. I’m opposed to gays using the term marriage for their relationship.”

It does appear that Warren has backed himself into a very miry quagmire. If Saddleback church says that….

“God tells us through His Word that sex outside of marriage and secual immorality are one in the same: they are both sin.”

… but Warren says, that he is not opposed to the sin of homosexuality, just them being married, how can they escape this grievous sin, at least by Warren’s standards?

 

Warren said that disagreeing with gay-rights activists on same-sex marriage does not qualify as hate speech and doesn’t mean he is anti-gay.

To this point Warren is correct. One can disagree with sin and still not hate. In fact, to speak truth is a testimony of one’s love, lest the sinner be lost for an eternity. But what Warren’s speech does qualify, is that he should not stand behind a pulpit as a preacher of God’s Word. A man that espouses the doctrine of God’s word should not be afraid to call sin, sin. It may be that he should consider the realm of politics…

“We’re both willing to be criticized in order to try to bring America into a new day of civil discourse and to create a new model that says you don’t have to agree only with your side on everything,” Warren said in the video posted Monday night by Saddleback Community Church.

…. his speech is much more fitted for that lukewarm environment!

Anyone can attend Saddleback worship services. But the church article had said that gays “unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted” as members.

Saddleback members must sign a broadly worded covenant in which they agree to follow Bible teachings. While gay relationships aren’t mentioned in the pledge, it is meant to cover the spectrum of conservative Christian belief.

With one last point for consideration, if members must ‘sign a covenant that the agree to follow Bible teachings’, one must agree, if they understand the teaching of the Word of God, that homosexuality not acceptable to God, whether practiced by the believer or in the church….

Don’t you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers–none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away, and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you. 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

…. it doesn’t matter if it is adultery, incest, pedophilia, zoophilia or homosexuality.

Wouldn’t it just be simpler to call sin, sin?

malachi

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4 Comments

  1. No sin is committed by having loving and consensual sex.

  2. Thanks sushiosoyum for stopping by A Word From Malachi and for expressing your thoughts.

    To say “No sin is committed by having loving and consensual sex” is no doubt a debatable statement. I have watched for some years now and found the debate to exist only among those who see things through the eyes of the flesh. When I say ‘see things through the eyes of the flesh’… that is the purpose of the desire, to satisfy nothing more than the flesh.

    This type of satisfaction is also given precedence in the case of beastiality or pedophilia. It can be liken to the satisfaction associated to rape, of course only one finding enjoyment through the act. It has no other desire than to satisfy the feeling of ones flesh.

    For the proper perspective on sex one must have a basic understanding of God and His word.

    Lev 18:6 “You must never have sexual intercourse with a close relative, for I am the Lord.
    Lev 18:7 Do not violate your father by having sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your mother; you must never have intercourse with her.
    Lev 18:8 Do not have sexual intercourse with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.
    Lev 18:9 “Do not have sexual intercourse with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was brought up in the same family or somewhere else.
    Lev 18:10 “Do not have sexual intercourse with your granddaughter, whether your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would violate you.
    Lev 18:11 Do not have sexual intercourse with the daughter of any of your father’s wives; she is your half sister.
    Lev 18:12 Do not have intercourse with your aunt, your father’s sister, because she is your father’s close relative.
    Lev 18:13 Do not have sexual intercourse with your aunt, your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.
    Lev 18:14 And do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual intercourse with his wife; she also is your aunt.
    Lev 18:15 Do not have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife.
    Lev 18:16 Do not have intercourse with your brother’s wife; this would violate your brother.
    Lev 18:17 “Do not have sexual intercourse with both a woman and her daughter or marry both a woman and her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter. They are close relatives, and to do this would be a horrible wickedness.
    Lev 18:18 “Do not marry a woman and her sister because they will be rivals. But if your wife dies, then it is all right to marry her sister.
    Lev 18:19 “Do not violate a woman by having sexual intercourse with her during her period of menstrual impurity.
    Lev 18:20 “Do not defile yourself by having sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife.
    Lev 18:21 “Do not give any of your children as a sacrifice to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.
    Lev 18:22 “Do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestable sin.
    Lev 18:23 “A man must never defile himself by having sexual intercourse with an animal, and a woman must never present herself to a male animal in order to have intercourse with it; this is a terrible perversion.

    Now granted, we live in a day and amidst a society in which this criterion is ‘NOT’ considered a perversion, but God is not asking us what we think about “loving and consensual sex” but making sure we understand what He thinks about sexual intercourse. It shall be a standard for consideration when one stands before Him.

    Once again sushiosoyum, thanks for stopping by and commenting.

    Peace
    malachi

  3. I agree that some of the things you mention (such as bestiality and pedophilia) are wrong. I say this because there is no informed consent on their parts. A child *may* come onto an adult but that child does not have the full understanding of sex, the ramifications of doing so psychologically and mentally, etc.

    The problem I see is Lev 18 22. Why do Christians/Catholics focus so much on this passage? Why do they pick and choose which laws to follow? I can pull things from Lev that no Christian/Catholic would ever care to do…I don’t think I need to explain this one.

    But why focus so much on the Old Testament? Wasn’t it Paul who explained not to become too hung up on the old? I’m open to any clarification from you on this, I myself am of no religion and it has been a number of years since I studied the bible.

  4. I do not reference this portion of God’s word for the purpose of the keeping of the LAW for the LAW is crucified with Christ, but the LAW does two very important things sushiosoyum, it first reveals the heart/mind of God. The only way for us to know what God thinks is for Him to tell us. He did that in sending His LAW to His people. Even though He did not send His LAW to me I can understand what His thought process is as to a multitude of issues, obedience to parents, how to help the poor, how to treat my neighbor, etc…

    All a man had to do to please God was to be obedient to His LAW, but no man could do this, for if the LAW could make one right… there would have been no need for God to send His Son (Christ).

    There is one other thing that the LAW did and is paramount in the scheme of things. The bible teaches us that by doing the deeds of the LAW no man can be justified,because to offend in a single area of the LAW, is to pillage it in its entirety, so why even give it? Because by the LAW is the knowledge of sin. Rom.3:20

    If it is by the LAW that God mandates SIN then the things written tell us what God considers to be sin.

    I am curious, what do you think about ….

    Lev 18:7 Do not violate your father by having sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your mother; you must never have intercourse with her.

    Lev 18:20 “Do not defile yourself by having sexual intercourse with your neighbor’s wife.

    The reason that I extracted these two form all the others is because we live in a decadent society and have no problem and in many instances condone adultery of consenting adults which God said was not right.

    Concerning sex with ones mother is quite a different story. Not many, even in a decadent society would find this acceptable and even if they did it they would not make a boast of it.

    What would be the difference?

    Peace
    malachi


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